The Art of Letting Go Podcast
The Art of Letting Go is a podcast that began in 2017 as a personal exploration of mental wellness and personal growth. Relaunching in 2025, the show has evolved into a space where mental health, creativity, and self-discovery intersect. Hosted by Mike Brown, each biweekly episode dives into vulnerable stories, practical tools for wellness, and the transformative power of art.
Whether through personal reflections or guest conversations, The Art of Letting Go offers inspiration and creative strategies to support your mental and emotional well-being.
The Art of Letting Go Podcast
Episode 214 | Creating Community with Joshua Michael Cruz
Got thoughts, feedback, or questions? We’d love to hear from you—send us an email.
In this powerful episode of The Art of Letting Go, host Mike Brown sits down with Joshua Michael Cruz—coach, community builder, and founder of Where the Soul Grows. They dive deep into the importance of community, vulnerability, and healing as queer men of color.
Topics include:
🌿 The journey of self-love and emotional intelligence
🏳️🌈 The challenges of building queer community beyond the bar scene
🛑 Setting boundaries and maintaining healthy friendships
🧠 Overcoming negative self-talk with the support of community
📖 The power of journaling as a tool for self-reflection
🎭 The intersection of masculinity, femininity, and identity in ballroom culture
Joshua also shares insights into his transformative work with Where the Soul Grows and the impact of healing in community.
🔗 Follow Joshua Michael Cruz:
📸 Instagram: @JoshuaMichaelCruz
📺 YouTube: @JoshuaMichaelCruz
📜 Substack: Where the Soul Grows
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🎧 Listen now and let us know your thoughts in the comments!
Let's stay in touch!
Instagram: @theartoflettinggopodast
Website: www.theartoflettinggopodcast.com
Blog/Newsletter: https://justmikebrown362.substack.com/
[ 00:00:00 ] Hey, everybody, this is Mike Brown, and I want to welcome you to this week'sepisode of The Art of Letting Go. We got a really special episode in store for you. But while I have your attention, please, on whatever app, whatever streaming service you listen on, please leave us a review. Let people know what you think. Let me know what you think. Sort of like Annie Michelle did last month. Thank you so much. I really appreciate the compliment. And also, please subscribe to our newsletter. There's a link in the bio. And also, follow us on all social media. Thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode, and enjoy the show.
[ 00:00:48 ] Yo, what up? This is Mike Brown, and this is The Art of Letting Go. Today, I have a special guest in the You are a coach, workshop facilitator, community builder, the founder of Where the Soul Grows. Would you mind introducing yourself to the Yeah, thank you so much for having me here, Mike. Exactly like you said, I like to think of myself as a multi- hyphenated creator. I think that's how you pronounce it, but yeah, I do coaching. I am a community builder. Yes, I founded this community called Where the Soul Grows where specifically it's a space for queer men of color to come together and talk about healing, vulnerability, these things. I also love to write and really just on a path of healing in this journey of life and just understanding myself more and really just trying to be my most authentic self.
[ 00:01:57 ] I love that. Man, Joshua, welcome to The Art of Letting Go. How are you feeling today? You know, I am feeling okay. I'm trying to practice that thing where it's like I'm not lying about how I'm actually feeling, right? Where it's like I'm good all the time that's not the truth, you know? And like I just said, I'm trying to be my most authentic self. So when you ask me how I am, I'm okay. You know, I had a friend yesterday that asked me on a scale of one to 10, how you feeling? I said, I'm a seven. And then I'm like, no, I think actually I'm a six. I think I'm a six. And yeah, there's a lot of shifts in my life currently.
[ 00:02:36 ] And so I'm sitting within those feelings and allowing myself to feel them. And it's been aprocess throughout the last two and a half weeks because I've gone probably from one to like two to four to six on that scale of one to 10. So today I'm feeling okay. You know what? I appreciate you sharing that. I'm feeling probably like a seven. You know, I will say over the past couple ofmonths just moving and transitioning into full- time entrepreneurship, it can definitely be an I won't say an emotional rollercoaster, but it's a lot of riding the And I appreciate you sharing that because I think so often I'm feeling good or I'm making other people feel good that I don't really express when I'm feeling low.
[ 00:03:26 ] And I keep it to myself a lot oftimes just because I feel like I don't want to put this on other people. And it's funny, sometimes it seeps through and still comes out on other people. So, you know, I think the best way to describe how I feel is present right now and really like giving myself space to show up however I need to in that presence. Yeah, I love that. That's so beautiful. And it kind of reminds me of aconversation I had with my therapist around that feeling of like not expressing how I'm truly feeling on the inside to people and just kind of just saying I'm good because I think I'm uncovering this part of me that feels like I might be a burden on other people.
[ 00:04:09 ] So I don't want to put that burden onto other people and have them have to carry what it is that I'm especially specifically speaking for myself because I'm in this space of like wanting people to like go on this healing journey and like let go of like pain andsadness or grief or whatever, right? Or face it or become aware of it. And so me having to put more of that onto someone else with my own whatever's going on, I've struggled to be very open about how I'm feeling at times because of that feeling of being a burden on other people and this like act of hyper- independence as well, which is really weird for me considering the fact that I do community work.
[ 00:04:54 ] So I'm like, let's be a And I'm so deep, like that's literally what I want so badly. But I also struggle with thefact of like being hyper- independent as well. So it's kind of like, what do you call it? It's clashing. Yeah, that's so relatable for me because I do feel like a community builder, but I am so, like I'm hyper- independent because I've been that way my whole life and even just navigating my own journey with my queerness and hiding and having to like be to myself that I guess there's still some of that like residual, you know, that residual energy of like trying to shake that off. Like, I guess if I was hiding for this long, I'm having to like now work my way out of it.
[ 00:05:41 ] So it's been a and I'm glad we're having this conversation today. That's really why I wanted to talk to you because like I said, I see you building community. I see you sharing resources and I do the same thing. And a lot of the things I see you share online are conversations that I feel like I have privately. So it's really dope to share space with somebody, like just sharing space with somebody that's like- minded and yeah, just opening these conversations up to the And I wanted to start with community, like in our conversation, because for me for a long time, it was really just challenging to navigate community as a queer person, you like my exposure when I came out was going to gay bars and to me that doesn't feel like a healthy starting point, but I'm curious to know, like what was your experience navigating community and how has it changed over time?
[ 00:06:43 ] Yeah, great question. I appreciate it. You know, for me, I would first say that I think your experience is very common for people, especially I think for all of us, but I'm not sure like when it is that you came out and started to explore yourself, but a friend of mine, Sovereign, has always said that we have inherited like the club scene and the bar scene, right? And so immediately that's kind of where we flocked to to create community because that's almost all we have because of how, you know, in the past being gay, you know, we use the term queer now, right? Well, not everyone does, but just thinking of like back in the 80s, it wasn't acceptable, right, to be gay.
[ 00:07:34 ] And so we have the queer, excuse me, the bar scene and the club scene that we kind of gravitate towards when we first think about what community could look like or where do we even go? And so, yeah, it's difficult for us when we're coming into our identity to really find spaces that we can feel like welcomed or we can find likediscovery in a way that doesn't feel overwhelming. But I had the same experience as you when I was coming out and I came out pretty young. You know, I considered myself always to like be gay and like never in the closet. Like even when I was in middle school, people would ask me like, are you gay? And I never said that I wasn't, but I would always be like, you know, like I just kind of brushed it off.
[ 00:08:27 ] But freshman year of high school is when I really just was like, yeah, I'm gay. And of course, when I began to get older, turned 17, 18, 18, not 17, but when I turned 18, started to go into the clubs and and that's how I kind of understood how to begin building communities such as yourself and such as a lot of other people. But it was really difficult to find really close- knit friends because yeah, you just like, we often have to, it feels almost like we're still hiding even when we do come into ourselves, even when we are accepting of our identity, even when we start to find spaces we can go into, but there's not a lot of spaces that we can go to.
[ 00:09:12 ] So it still feels like, well, where am I supposed to go if there's only this one bar that I can go to that is gonna allow me to be who I am? So for a long time, I don't think I really understood how to build community and it was just going to theclubs and I had three or four really close friends who were also gay. And so as I got older, I started to like want to well, how can I make new friends? How can I discover more about myself? How can I discover more about other people? I started to notice on social media when I would talk about my own, like things that I was struggling with, it would have people gravitate towards me.
[ 00:10:03 ] So I started to understand that vulnerability was like a great way to build community. I didn't know that that's what it was at that time. I just knew like me expressing myself, people were messaging me, commenting and saying, wow, like I can't believe someone else feels like that. And thank you so much for sharing that. I feel so connected to you, all of these things. So that was kind of like the beginning of my community building. And that was probably back in, I don't know, maybe 2013, 2014 when I was doing that. And now I understand that vulnerability is like the conduit for me to create community because it allows people to see the real me and the real world and how we navigate that and how difficult that is.
[ 00:10:54 ] And that we don't have to do that alone because we are not alone in our struggles because many people also face the same challenges that I face or that you face. And so I think building community for me, in my opinion, starts at being vulnerable and being open about who you are so that people can see who you are and gravitate towards you because they see you and they know you. That's beautiful. Yeah, as I was listening to you, I was just like, I didn't have any queer community when I came out. I didn't come out until I was 26 years old. And I will say most of my journey, spent in denial of even being gay because I grew up in I just never saw a gay man that looked like me, showed up in the world in the way that I do.
[ 00:11:51 ] I thought I was masculine. So it was just like, this doesn't make sense. And when I moved to Los Angeles, that's when I started meeting these masculine men that identified as And it really shifted my world and my whole perspective. entering the bar scene, I realized a lot of myconnections weren't really based off of common interest. It was more based off desirability and attraction. And it wasn't until I started playing in a gay basketball league till I was able to really build healthy connections with people. And I guess something that comes up for me is just how important do you think boundaries are when building connections? Because I know that line, especially just in the community, it can get blurred of like, am I trying to be this person'sfriend because of our common interests?
[ 00:12:45 ] Or am I trying to be this person's friend because I'm attracted to them? How do we, I guess, find balance for ourselves in that? Not even for the other person. Boundaries are super important. Super, super important. I think especially, I don't know if it's right to say especially in our community, but I think in my experience, I have found in many of us, I think many people in our, in many gay men in our community or queer men in our might also have the same kind of thought that when you meet someone else, another gay man, immediately there's kind of like this feeling of sexuality or sexual tension or just like sex kind of is at the forefront a for many gay men. That's what we experience or that's what a lot of people feel like they experience.
[ 00:13:38 ] And so I think creating those and for yourself is really important because you have to know how to, to express those boundaries to people that you're coming into contact with and potentially into community with. I think it's also important first to gain awareness of yourself to gain emotional intelligence so that you can understand where another person is potentially in their life in regards to their own awareness and emotional intelligence because the important thing about building community that I think a lot of people don't talk about is those uncomfortable conversations that you have to have with other people that you're in community with. And if you don't have awareness or if you don't have emotional intelligence, may not be able to have a conversation with somebody that you wanna be in community with and tell them, hey, I have this I see you as a You may have seen me as something more.
[ 00:14:44 ] I don't want that. I want you as a This is the boundary that you cannot cross. How do you feel about that? You know what I'm And hopefully if they're at the same level as you, I don't know if that's the right way to say it, but if they're at the same level as you in terms of awareness and emotional intelligence, they might be able to say, oh, I understand that. I understand I can't cross that I also understand that you only wanna be friends and therefore I will respect that and we don't have to take this any further beyond the line offriendship that we've drawn here in the sand. And that's not to say you still can't beattracted to another person.
[ 00:15:23 ] I think attraction is you can't stop that regardless of if a person is your friend, if you're in a relationship and you find yourself attracted to somebody else. Attraction is attraction. I think what's important is for us to be able to understand ourselves enough to know when to not act on that attraction or how to respect another person's So as an individual, you need to start with yourself and gain that awareness and emotional intelligence to then be able to translate your boundaries somebody else and say, these are my boundaries. This is the line you don't cross. Really respect you, really wanna be your But if you can't understand that, then we can't be and that's also okay, right?
[ 00:16:08 ] And that might be an awakening for that other person to gain their own perspective of themselves and awareness and emotional intelligence to then create community after that experience so that they can understand how to then create community without inserting anything that is non- consensual or just not needed or wanted at all. I hope that makes sense. It does. And what you said was so powerful about your own emotional intelligence because I could think of times in myjourney where like I gave into that desire, that feeling just because, and like at the core of my mind, knowing like I only see this person as a friendandthenyourfriendship gets uncomfortable and it's just like, you know, again, I wish these were tools that we had in place, you know, but here we are creating those tools, you know what I mean?
[ 00:17:07 ] So it's dope. I kind of wanted to touch on, just because we're talking about self, like what does your self- love look like and where are you at in the journey of self- love? Gosh, my journey has been up and down, honestly. You know, I think I've come a long way in terms of loving myself. I've learned a lot, but even just recently, I've had to kind of take a step back and ask myself, oh, maybe I didn't love myself as much as I did. And that's just the question that pops up for me, but I challenge it because I tend to think about, okay, if I'm asking myself that question, is there any proof of that? You know, is that a fact?
[ 00:17:50 ] What is making me question my own love of self and what may have happened or transpired before this question that I can kind of analyze and ask myself, well, if this is true, then, you know, where are the facts, right? So for me, I'm in a space of reflection and that from myself, I think is the greatest form of self- love because I'm a person that continuously wants to grow and wants to become a better person and wants to become my most authentic self and wants to always be empathetic towards others because I see others as human beings because I am also a human being. And so I'm in this kind of journey of understanding that none of us are perfect, including myself.
[ 00:18:48 ] And that for me is a form of self- love because it reminds me that nothing that I do is a failure or is necessarily a but everything I do is a And so if I can take everything as a and apply it to myself and say, how can I grow from this? For me, that in and of itself is self- love because I'm saying, I want to be a better person for myself so that I can also be a better person for other people and for this world. And so analyzing myself and reflecting on myself and allowing myself to grow, allowing myself to feel these feelings and putting the effort into really picking apart some of the things that I maybe didn't pick apart in the past and challenge those thoughts, challenge those behaviors, challenge those patterns and say, I don't like this about myself.
[ 00:19:42 ] This I actually do like about myself. This I think I can change. So that way, again, it's all to continue on this journey of loving or of self- actualization, I guess I should say. And sometimes I think like, okay, well, should I continue to do that? Because like, how much can you actually self- actualize? Am I just reflecting on myself too much sometimes? Am I an overthinker? So sometimes I think about that because you mentioned earlier you just wanted to be, and sometimes I feel that. I'm like, I just want to be. Like, maybe I shouldn't be thinking this much. Maybe I shouldn't be reflecting this much. Maybe this isn't a Am I creating a So sometimes I think like that. And so sometimes I do let things kind of like go and I'm just like, just let it be.
[ 00:20:33 ] Don't think too much about it. But I think the best way that I practice self- love currently is to really own it on myself and self- reflect about who I am and what makes me truly happy, what brings me joy, and what makes me feel like I'm existing in this world in the way that I'm supposed to be existing. That's dope. I met Law Roach like two weeks ago and I was talking to him about like just really balancing those negative thoughts that come up because I feel like for me, and I think just us as creatives and just, you know, black people, queer people, like they just, that negative voices, that negative chatter is just always there. And I'm curious to know, how do you balance it?
[ 00:21:19 ] How do you, because it comes up, you but how do you, I guess, keep control of it? Community. My friends, I have a best friend that I go to when I'm feeling doubtful, when I'm feeling lost. And I love him so much because he always reminds me of who I am. You know, and I actually, I'm so blessed to say, I have a few friends that remind me of who I am. You know, and I have my best friend who says, he always says, you're the light. Like, why, you're the light. Like, you can't forget that. Yeah, you're Joshua, you're Joshua Cruz. Like, you're the light. And then I have another friend that tells me, you're the prize. Like, I don't know how much I have to explain it to you.
[ 00:22:07 ] And he's been telling me this for like two years. He's like, I don't know what's wrong with you. Like, he's a little bit harder on me. So he's like, I don't know what's wrong with you. You, you're the prize. Why don't you think that you're the prize? I gotta tell you this shit all the time. And I'm just like, I know, I know, youknow And sometimes it sticks on me and I'm like, I am. Like, I know I am. I'm so incredible, right? But those doubts do come up. So when I'm feeling like that, I call my friends because they speak life into me and they remind me of who I am and they remind me of what I've And they remind me that just my existence is amazing.
[ 00:22:46 ] And then I have my group that I've created, right? And they're so incredible because even recently I was feeling like, wow, I don't know if I'm the leader that I think that I am. I don't know if I'm the leader that people think that I am. Like, am I a Like, what does that mean? And I was just feeling really down and we had a virtual get together over Zoom. We have them a few times a And I got really vulnerable about how I was feeling and the life that they spoke into me was just amazing. And it was just a reminder like, wow, I've created this community for people to come together to build friendship and to And I can't forget about that. Even when I doubt myself about what I'm doing.
[ 00:23:32 ] So I think it's so important to find the people, especially that know you for you at your core. Like know your ins and outs, know your know your challenges, know you from when you were broke, from when you lost your jobs, from your heartbreaks, because they're going to be able to see you exactly for who you are and remind you of that person that they've seen throughout all of those moments in your life. And for me, that's the way that I balance my feelings of self- doubt because they're speaking that life into me that maybe in that moment, I don't have the power or the voice to actually say. It's James Woods, aka That Yoga Dude with Feel Free to Feel Free a feeling of moving on, moving past doubt, stress, worry, anxiety, into abundance, confidence, peace, joy, love, moving away from what's unknown but okay places.
[ 00:24:48 ] know I'll be okay as long as I'm As long as I can find a place of as long as I can find a place of as long as I can find a breath, I'll be okay. everything around me and within me will be more than okay. Breathing in, the release, the exchange, the movement between the inhale and exhale. Releases me from the past and continues to ground me in the present. I want me to be here, to be healed and still moving forward, taking a deep breath. And as always, Feel Free to Feel Free and namaste, peace.
[ 00:25:55 ] Where do you feel like you discovered your vulnerability? Because I feel like it's not something that we're just naturally taught. And for me, I feel like being open about my really created a full space of vulnerability for me in my life. But I'm curious to know, where did you discover yours? Yeah, you know what? I gotta be honest and say that I think I've always been like this. I think I've always been a person that wasn't afraid to talk about his feelings. When I grew up, when I was growing up, I was a mama's And I think my mom really embedded in me opportunity to feel my emotions and to release them. I remember always, anytime I cried, she was there and she would hold me and tell me it's okay, right?
[ 00:26:53 ] And she never scolded me forcrying or she never made me feel like it was wrong. So I think I got that strength from her, from her allowing me to be just emotional. So as I've gone through life, I can think about in my past where I don't think that I've ever felt the need to hide what I was feeling. And I've always talked about my struggles and Now it's on a more bigger platform because I have a bigger platform. But I can even think about when I'd be at work, when I was younger, I worked at Starbucks and I remember talking about just feelings that I had at work and people would be like, oh my God, you're so And I'm just talking, I'm just expressing what's in me.
[ 00:27:50 ] You know what I'm So I will say that I think around 2016, no, I wanna say like 2015, I started reading books about self- help and books around learning more about theego and things like that. I read like The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle and The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho. And these books really helped me to understand the It really helped me to understand emotions and feelings and how to translate those into the real world. And I think when I learned about the ego, that was a really shifting moment for me because I was like, oh, there's this thing, like these voices in my head that are actually not me and they're telling me these things or they're saying these things and I can actually talk back to them and say, oh no, that's not true.
[ 00:28:50 ] Like actually this is true and this is what Ibelieve and this is what I see for myself. So that was like a major transition for me. And I think that's when I really started to become even more vulnerable and use my platforms the way that I do now. I've been doing this for a very long time. Now I think it's where it's now being more noticed and more noticed and I've gotten more rooted in what my mission is and who I am. But I would say I've always been like this, but learning about the ego has really helped to elevate that and my understanding of it. That's dope. What advice would you give to people that are looking for safety, that don't feel safe?
[ 00:29:35 ] Like what steps would you tell them to take to find or even just create a safe space for themselves? Yeah, oh I would say it's really hard to say start with vulnerability because that's a hard thing for a lot of people to do, I think, it's a scary thing. And especially in the queer community, I think a lot of us have this fear that if we are people are gonna take advantage of us. People are not gonna respect us. People are not going to want to be around us. But I think vulnerability is such an important step to take but find small ways to do that, whether that be with the people that are currently in your life, start to be vulnerable with them in away that maybe you haven't been, to people that you actually trust, right?
[ 00:30:33 ] To people that you feel can hold that space for you because once you begin to express yourself and to let out these things that you're feeling within you, it's gonna give you thebravery and the courage to continue to do that. And that's gonna create safety around you because you're gonna have the strength in yourself to know, well, I've accepted this about myself, I can speak on it. And so I feel safe enough to express that out into the world because nothing that any outside person will say to me can affect me because I know my truth, right? So I think starting with vulnerability, with people that you already feel safe with is a really great place to start, right? And I know not everybody might not have safe people in their lives right now.
[ 00:31:25 ] So it could be difficult to find ways to do that. But I think we are in such an important time right now where there is access in one way oranother to safe spaces that you can try out and see if it's for you, such as podcasts like this, right? Or the healing collective that I have for queer men of color. Like you can go on Google and you can probably search these things and find stuff or go on YouTube and search these things and find these communities because they do exist. And I hope that we can continue to build more spaces like this where we can feel safe. But I think we live in a really great time where there's more of these spaces than there used to be.
[ 00:32:11 ] And so I would say take advantage of that and start somewhere. And lastly, what I would say about that is when you do find a space that feels safe, if it's not your forever space, feel free to also create your own, right? Because if you create something, then you can know that it's really safe because it's coming from you and you know what you want it to look like. But it's really important to self- reflect on yourself,andtoaskyourself how do I want to show up as a safe space for other people? Because we have to remember that when we're creating spaces, we have to create that safety outside of our perspective and not think of only what makes us safe, but what could potentially make other people safe as well.
[ 00:32:54 ] And you won't be perfect in that. You will have to ask your community for but it's important for us to take those necessary steps, especially when we're creating space for other people. love that. Something that came up for me just now was a post that you made about, and I feel like it's a conversation that feels so necessary to have because even myself, I've experienced it, but you shared that gay men, a lot of times use sex as a coping skill low self- worth. And that resonated with me so much because I can think of times where I just would use sex to just get off energy. And at certain points in my life, it made it hard to even have sex with the person that I was actually attracted to because I was using this improperly.
[ 00:33:51 ] And I guess my question is, how does one, because I know for myself, I became aware of it by just really having conversations with people. I remember even going to a sexual addiction counseling just to see, hey, what's going on with me? And realizing, oh, wow, it's because of my self- that I'm just putting myself in these But saying all that to say, how do people become aware if they aren't aware and just reflect on that and build healthier coping tools in general? Yeah, I resonate so much with what you say because I experienced the same thing. I think that post for me too was a little bit scary to write and to express because similar to you, I've used in the past sex as a coping mechanism, as a way to make myself feel good, to find validation.
[ 00:34:50 ] And it's hard because if you are not having sex for the right reasons, it can take a toll on your mental health, on your body, on you, on your soul. I think the most important thing for people to begin to realize if they're using sex as a coping mechanism is how do they feel after having sex? Right? And I'll use myself as an When I used to use sex as a coping mechanism, anytime that I was done having sex with someone, I would always feel like garbage after. I would ask myself, why did I do this? Why did I let this happen to myself? Is this all I am? I would just feel at my lowest. And I started to reflect on those feelings and the pattern was showing up.
[ 00:35:49 ] You know what I'msaying I would see the pattern every single time. Before I would be so excited. I was like, yes, I can't wait to do this. The feelings inside of me of wanting to have sex were so excited and I was ready for it. And the passion was there, right? And then once it was it was like I went from all the way up here to all the way down here, just feeling like complete shit. And I'm just like, why do I feel like this? I thought this was gonna make me feel better. I thought it was gonna make me feel more beautiful and sexy, but it just made me feel worse. And so if you're a person that is having a lot of sex and you're feeling like this after every encounter, then that is when you should start to reflect on if this is something that you're doing just to make yourself feel better.
[ 00:36:40 ] And if you don't know how to begin tounderstand if this is something that you'reusing to make yourself feel better, I always recommend journaling as the first step. Journaling, people, I feel like, don't take journaling as seriously as they should or don't understand how impactful and powerful it is because what's happening inside of your mind is you're having all of these thoughts and they're just circling and circling and circling and there's nowhere for them to go except in here. So when you can write them on a piece ofpaper in your journal, you are letting all of those thoughts out of your mind and you're creating space for new thoughts and you're creating space for new thinking. And this is gonna give you more clarity and more understanding around what is happening to you.
[ 00:37:30 ] So when you put it on paper, you can read it back to yourself and it will make more sense. And that is when you can start to combat those feelings of not feeling worthy enough or not even combat them, but you can start to begin to ask yourself, why am I feeling like this? So when you journal it out, it's gonna give you aspace for you to get all of those feelings out from all of those thoughts out from your mind. I would say that's a first step, such an important step that you can take for understanding what is happening to you and also using that as a coping skill. If you wanna get away from using sex as a coping skill, you want a new healing tool, whenever you feel like you wanna go out and you wanna have sex because you're not feeling good about yourself, maybe journal instead and ask yourself that why do I wanna have sex right now?
[ 00:38:23 ] What is coming up for me? What am I feeling in this moment, right? Am I Is my friend, did my friend make me Did my sibling call me and ask me for money? Is my job stressing me out? Like, what is it actually that is making you feel like, okay, I can't deal with this, I need a distraction, let me go have sex. You know whatI'msayingYouhavetounderstandwhat actually is causing you to feel like you wanna run away and just go and have sex. Right, so I would say journaling is such an important tool that you can use that's gonna help you on your journey to really understanding more about yourself and your coping mechanisms.
[ 00:39:03 ] Again, so that you can get those thoughts out of yourbrain and allow for a flow of new thoughts and love that. And I'm gonna add to that grace, giving yourself grace, because it is a journey. You know, earlier this cause I've been kind of doing the newsletter thing as well. And I had to write about just like going to apps, not even looking for anything, but just getting on an app just to get on an app and asking myself that why and like saying, oh, my self value may not be in place or it may not be where it's supposed to be right now. So really, I really appreciate journaling as a tool for checking in. Yeah, and I wanna add a little bit to what you just said of giving yourself grace.
[ 00:39:46 ] That's so important because I think a lot of the times, I don't want people to hear this and think that what they're doing is likehorrible and they need to stop right now. And oh my God, because to be honest, sometimes that's all you got. You know what I'm Sometimes maybe the sex is what is fulfilling you in this moment. And that's the only thing that is keeping you together. Listen, that's okay. You know what I'm saying? You may have to start taking steps to finding more healthier ways to cope with what you're feeling. But sometimes whatever you're using to cope with you right now for you is all you got. And to be able to give yourself grace and say, okay, I know what I'm doing is probably not the healthiest thing and it makes me feel bad.
[ 00:40:30 ] But right now it's the only thing I can do to really continue to move forward in my life. And even having that even saying that to yourself, and if somebody is listening to this and they can take that and they can say that to that is like the crack in the to say, okay, I see what's happening. And I'm maybe not ready to make a change right now, but I know that I can because I can see the light cracking through the I can see that there's an opportunity to change this. So I just wanted to add that because having that grace is so important because sometimes all we got is, what we're doing in the moment may be all that we have. Yeah, I agree. Were you in ballroom?
[ 00:41:13 ] I am still in ballroom. Oh, that's cool. That's really cool. I used to, when I lived in LA, I used to be a part of a Kiki house, but I also walked runway and walked realness. And I haven't done it in a while, but I have been in like just constant reflection of the category of realness. And I'm curious to like, just how do you feel about it? Because it does kind of feel like it enforces like that masculinity, femininity, and it does give it like a sense of performativeness, but I'm curious to know, how do you feel about it? Yeah, this is a question I ask myself a lot because I am, if you, I know you view my content and I talk a lot about this masculinity versus femininity thing and just being able tolean in both of your energies.
[ 00:42:07 ] And so it is like counter intuitive. Is that the word that I'm looking for? I'm just gonna use it because I think it might be the word that I'm looking for, but it's counterintuitive that I also walk that same category of realness in ballroom because as a masculine presenting man, walking that category, it is perpetuating that kind of like, that overt masculinity, that societally accepted masculinity. And like, that's what you have to show up as in this category in order for you to get your 10s and to So I've struggled a little bit with this because I'm like, I'm this type of person. I am masculine presenting. If I walk out into the world and you don't know me, nine times out of 10, you probably won't suspect that I'm gay unless I'm feeling it that day and I'm listening to some music and my hips are, and I'm just like, really, but sometimes I'm just walking and I'm just like, you probably, you may not, I don't know.
[ 00:43:07 ] I always think like maybe people do know, I don't know. But when you look at me, if I'm not doing anything, most likely you're probably gonna see me as a masculine presenting. I mean, as a masculine man, as a straight man, as a heterosexual man. But I also love and appreciate my feminine energy. I love, I also walk realness with a I vogue. So for me, that is so important because it just makes me feel so into that feminine energy and I feel like a femme queen. Like, I just, I feel like awoman and I'm just like, this feels great. Like, I don't know, it just feels good. And so when I think about when I walk realness, I'm like, damn, like, I have to pretend to be this really masculine man.
[ 00:43:52 ] And sometimes I do feel like that. Sometimes I do feel like a really masculine man. Sometimes if we go back to the talk around sex, sometimes I do feel that very alpha energy in that space sometimes. And sometimes I feel the very submissive energy, right? And so going back and forth on that, it's a struggle to have to go on stage and pretend to be this thing that I'm like, sometimes I am this thing, but not always. And it feels weird to like, be really like, yo, what's up? Like, and I'm just like, I'm just, I'm not like really like that. Like in the real world, I'm like a very sweet, kind person. So it's like, I'm, I mean, I can fight. I'll fight. I'll fight if I have to, okay.
[ 00:44:40 ] Like I used to box and stuff like that. So, you know, I could fight, but I don't want to because for me, it's like, it's not worth it. You know what I'm But when you're on stage walking that category, depending on which realness category that you're you got to present this really alpha, like, yo, I will really, you want to go like, what's up? You know what I'm The way that I try to see it now is I am playing a part in a movie or in a show or in a play. And when I go up there, I'm an That's what it is. And many people will tell you if you go into ballroom, it is pretend, it's a fantasy world, right?
[ 00:45:19 ] So some people that do walk the category of realness, even some of the OGs, right? Some of the icons and legends, they are really like real. Like a lot of them are just very, very, like alpha masculine type shit like that. But I feel like as we've grown culturally and societally, especially in the queer spaces, even in ballroom, some other ways of presenting realness and presenting masculinity are being accepted. And so it's changing and shifting a little bit. But for me, I got to be honest, I'm playing a part. Like when I go out and I play it very well, you know what I'm I do, and I win and I love it and it's fun. It is. And I see the other side of it.
[ 00:46:11 ] And sometimes I think, wow, when I leave here, I don't want people to think like, I don't even think about it like that. I don't say like, I don't want people to I tell myself like, okay, that's not the real world. Like, I don't always have to be like that. And I also don't always want to be like that because sometimes I do feel like I want to be a girly and like, you know, it's a balance. So sometimes it feels strange, but the way that I look at it now is like, I'm playing a part. I'm here for the fantasy. It's fun to do it. It's interesting to, what you can do with your body, with your face, with your effect, with all of that stuff.
[ 00:47:01 ] So for me, it's like, because when I walk executive realness now, I used to walk. Okay. Yeah. And I walked thug realness like a few times and I'm like, thug realness, that's just not me. Like, I just, I'm not a Like, it's just not me. You know what I'm So everyday realness, I would walk, but now I seem, I've walked executive realness. I feel like that's a great category for me. But when I go up there, I'm not an executive in real life. I'm not a I'm not a CEO. You know what I'm So again, it's playing a part. You know what I'm So yeah, I hope that answered your question. I know. I love that. You know, I'm thinking about, shout out to my mother, Gigi, House of Marc Jacobs.
[ 00:47:44 ] But she would always tell me, because I think I used to be in my head about showing up. Like, I know externally I may present masculine, but when you have to perform it, it's like, am I walking? Am I this? Am I that? And she used to tell me, just go up there and be yourself. Like, you got the look. Like, just be yourself and you got it. And that was always fun to me, show up, to look at realness as showing up authentic when I would do the everyday. I never did any other types of realness, but I would love to challenge myself to take it on as an acting role. So I appreciate you sharing that. Yeah, absolutely.
[ 00:48:23 ] Something I did want to ask, in connection to masculinity and femininity, is just how do we give people space to show up as their full selves? Because I feel like so much of just how we show up in the world is fetishized. And even myself, I've experienced where people, when I first came out, people would tell me, like, oh, you're being too masculine. You're trying to act too And when I start letting myself fully be in my full form, people would be Like, oh, I thought you were more masculine than that. But how do we give people a space to just show up as a full human being? that's a difficult question because I think we are still in this really weird space with masculinity and femininity.
[ 00:49:14 ] You know what I'm I talk a lot about accepting both of those energies, but just because we all have feminine energy within us doesn't mean that it's going to show up in the same way as another person's feminine energy. You know what I'm Like, your feminine energy might not be this or this, right? It might just be like, you are just more soft- spoken or you're more calmer or you're just sweet. You know what I'm Like, I think that our definitions of what masculinity and femininity are, we don't have an actual understanding of them yet. so we're trying to still fit them into these of what society is telling us, what heteronormativity looks like and what masculinity should look like versus femininity.
[ 00:50:09 ] So I think that we have to, have to do better in just seeing people for who they are without immediately placing a label onto them. And that's really difficult to do because as human beings, the way that we understand things is by labeling them. So when you don't have alabel that you can put onto somebody, you are confused by them or you're angry by them or you don't relate to them because you can't find something that you can place them into this box. And I think that that was kind of maybe your experience as well. So I don't know that I have the answer to this question. I think what I would say is give people the space.
[ 00:50:59 ] to explore themselves, and to learn themselves, and to see them for who they are in that moment, rather than trying to force them into anything that they may not want to be. And just let people be, you know what I'm Because there are some masculine gay men that are just really masculine. I have an ex- boyfriend, and he literally was the most masculine man ever, you know what I'msaying Like, he just, it was just who he was. It just was who he was, and I could see that. And so, and anytime he would do, and try to do anything remotely feminine, it just looked awkward, you know what I'm But his feminine energy probably showed up in a different way, like I said earlier, like maybe soft- spokenness, or the way that he loves, or I don't know, you know what I'msaying So I think we have to broaden our horizons in terms, or broaden our perspectives in terms of what masculinity and femininity can look like.
[ 00:52:04 ] I love that. I want to transition into Where the Soul Grows, and I'm curious to know, like, what inspired you to start it? Yeah, so I started Where the Soul Grows in January of 2022, I think it was, the beginning of 2022. was in Puerto Rico. So prior to going to Puerto Rico, I had moved back home here to Boston from New York. My relationship had ended, lost my apartment, lost my job. My life was in shambles. So I moved back home, and I was like rebuilding myself. And so I wanted to get deeper into myroots and really understand who I was as a person, my identity, my culture. And so I decided to go back to Puerto Rico to visit my grandma after like 20 years of not seeing her.
[ 00:53:00 ] And I was doing all of this self- discovery, and I was learning so much about myself. And I was like, I want to continue this into the new year. I was there for Christmas and into the new year. So I spent New Year's there. And I was like, I don't know if I want to have like a New Year's goal or whatever, but I want to have something that I can focus on to continue to move forward into the new year with. And I started to think about, okay, well, if I'm getting whatever goal it's going to be, how can I know that I'm going to accomplish that goal? And I was like, what if I had an accountability partner? Like, that would be so cool.
[ 00:53:32 ] And then all of a sudden I was like, what if I had a group that like helped me? And I was like, oh, well, maybe I can create this And so I started to think of like, and then all of a sudden it actually started as the accountability group for queer men of color. That's how it, that was like the first name of Where the Soul Grows. And so I got on Instagram and I created this flyer. I've never done anything like that before. So the first flyer I ever did was like crazy looking, but I posted it and like 50 people like signed up and I was like, what the fuck? Like, this is so cool. Like, I was so excited and I was like, okay, like what am I going to do?
[ 00:54:09 ] And like, so I, the first meeting that we had, I waited till I came back to Boston because I was in Puerto I was like, okay, I'm going to do the Zoom thing and I set it up or whatever. But the idea came to fruition because I wanted to provide a space for other people to experience what I was experiencing in that moment was healing and vulnerability and like joy and happiness and self- discovery and self- actualization. I was like, oh, like I've learned so much. Like I want to share that with other people, but I also want to hold, I also want to be held accountable to continue that journey. So that's how it came into fruition. And gosh, that first six months was amazing, Like, I just, I was like, what is happening?
[ 00:54:52 ] I don't know what I'm doing. I've never started anything like this before. Like, this is so cool. But I started holding these workshops and conversations. And then I started inviting like people into, like tell their stories. And I had like some influencers and like some celebrities and things like that. And I remember one time, oh, why am I forgetting her name right now? She's an actress and producer, Lena Waithe. Okay. Yeah, she reposted one of my flyers. And I was like, what? Like, this is crazy. Like, it's just so, I was like, okay, what I'm doing clearly is like my purpose. I'm supposed to be doing something like this. So I continued to do it and it's developed into what it is today, which is where the soul grows.
[ 00:55:42 ] We still do the virtual get togethers via Zoom. We do workshops. We have one coming up actually this month, which I'm going to post about this week on cultivating joy. No, navigating grief and cultivating joy as queer men of color, just to kind of going into the holiday season and into the new year. And we did some in- person events too. I did two in Atlanta, one in New York. I want to do more of those in the year of 2025, but I'm also working on this big project under this umbrella of where the soul grows to give back to the community for them. So I won't speak too much on that right now because it's still kind of in ideation stage, but it's been calling me and I'm just so like excited and I just, I can't wait to give it to the community.
[ 00:56:29 ] So yeah, that's where I am right now with it. That's really dope. I started a book club earlier this year, just like a black and brown queer men's book club. And it just creates space for us to have like just really meaningful conversations. And I'm curious to know how important do you think healing is in community? So important. I don't think that we can fully, okay, well, let me rephrase that. Cause I was gonna say, I don't think we can fully heal without community, but no one ever stops healing. So in order, I think to feel the true impact of is when you can take what you've learned on your journey, on your healing journey and give that to somebody else. Because in order for the world to we have to help each other to heal in community.
[ 00:57:24 ] So I think that it's so important. Like, yes, there are moments in time where we may have to heal in isolation. Of course, like that's, I think that's just natural, but I think bringing your healing journey into a community is not only going to make such an impact for yourself, you're going to impact other people who will then impact other people who will then impact other people. And that's gonna go in a circle and come back to you. And you're gonna see all of the, all of the impact that you've had through your own healing journey in that in and of itself is going to heal you more because then you're gonna see like, wow, I made a difference in somebody else's life.
[ 00:58:04 ] And I think giving to other people or being in service to other people, I think it was, I think it may have been like, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. who said something about, like, we, I'm paraphrasing here, but it's like not everyone can be like famous and a but everyone can be in service of other people. And I believe in that when you are in service of other people, you are changing the world because you are giving yourself to somebody else so that they can help be helped to then give themselves to somebody else. And that I think is the beautiful thing about community because it's coming from our spirits, coming from our soul, it's coming from our heart. And we're doing it with just the sole purpose to help each other.
[ 00:58:53 ] And we need that in this world. Yeah, that's the truth. Yeah. So where do you envision, like, where the Soul Grows going? Like, what do you feel like is the next steps in the Yeah, so the next steps for sure is, I kind of touched on it earlier. It's creating a platform for people to access. Right now, where the Soul Grows is very focused on queer men of color, gay men of color, same gender, loving men. Specifically because I am myself a gay man, you know, a black gay man. And so my experience, I can speak so well to. And so I can create so many things around that because I'm speaking from my own experience and from other people in my Eventually, one day I would like to potentially open it up to all queer people of color, but I wanna make sure that what I'm creating is a safe space for people.
[ 00:59:52 ] And right now I'm learning how to do that with just directly with my community of gay men of color. But what I want this to become and what it is going to become and what I'm working on right now is creating a platform for people toaccess these healing tools and resources, youknow through their phones easier than it was to do it, you know, in the past or at all. I don't feel like we have many places that we can directly go to and find healing resources for us. And there's very minimal spaces for that. So I just want to add into that and say, hey, like you don't have to go to YouTube or to Google or to this website or to these places. You can find all of that here.
[ 01:00:42 ] And that's what I wanna create. So that's kind of like an ideation right now. And 2025, hopefully I'll launch something like that. That's really dope. right, so this last segment of the show is called Five Questions of Freedom. This is brought to you by Feel Free to Feel Free. And you can answer these questions any way you like. The first question is Boston or New York? Boston. To live? Yeah. Yes, Boston. What is one affirmation that you use that you can share? One affirmation that I use that I can share. I was gonna say one that's more of a This is gonna sound really simple, but this helps me a Everything is going to be okay. Everything is going to be okay. I repeat that to myself when I'm very anxious, when I'm feeling just like unsure. That's what I repeat to myself. I love that. If you could have a conversation with anybody, who would it be? My mother.
[ 01:02:10 ] Um, fourth question, what advice would you give to your younger self? Hmm. So much advice. I would probably tell myself to be more patient. Actually, no pause. I want to rewind and say, I would forgive myself a lot sooner. would forgive myself a lot sooner. I would say, you know, I'm sorry. Uh, and yeah, I think that's, that's such an important, that's been such an important step in my journey of healing is forgiving myself. So yeah, I would definitely like forgive myself. That's really, that's really dope. And what is a reminder you want to give to a future version of yourself? Everything that you are thinking that you can do, you can do it and you will do it. I love that. Joshua, where can the people find you?
[ 01:03:22 ] Yeah, I'm on Instagram. My handle is at Joshua Michael Cruz, YouTube. Also my handle is at Joshua Michael Cruz. And then I do have Tik TOK. That is more of my voguing videos, but you can get into that too. Actually, I just changed the handle to also be at Joshua Michael Cruz. And then I have my blog on Substack, which is, you can go on there and probably just search where the soul grows and it'll come up. Those are the places that I exist right now. That's dope. That's really dope. Joshua, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate this conversation. And man, I know we can probably have more conversations after this. I appreciate you coming on. Thank you so much. It was such a I hope whoever's listening got something out of this and thank you for creating this space. It's so needed and just know that you are changing people's lives. So thank you for having me here. It's such an I appreciate that. Thank y' all so much for tuning in. This is Mike Brown and this is The Art of Letting Go. Peace.
[ 01:04:33 ] Thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode of The Art of Letting Go. If you like what you heard, please be sure to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. Also, leave us a review. Let the people know what you think. Let me know what you think. Good, bad, indifferent. I love to hear it. Also, I'm trying to build up my newsletter subscribers. I'm at around 450 to 500 right now. By the end of the year, I want to have a thousand subscribers. It's really good. It's almost as good as the podcast, if not better. And I'm not just saying that because it's mine. So make sure you sign up for that newsletter and also sign up for my Patreon. There's a free option, but I just want to be connected to y' all directly. Thank you. And I'll see y' all on the next one. Peace.
